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we have confirmed, now, that jovan belcher use the one gun to kill his girlfriend and another gun to kill himself. as you said earlier we have finally confirmed that he did, in fact, shoot kasandra perkins nine times before going to the stadium and shooting himself. >>shepard: thank yous -- thank you, trace. and agencies are reporting that the head coach of the badgers in wisconsin has been stolen away by the university of arkansas is going to arkansas to fill that series of weird vacancies they were dealing with in arkansas, leaving wisconsin badgers and going to arkansas. >> identity thieves could be trying to get their hands on your tabs return, a sharp increase in the number of scanners filing fraudulent returns. science and technology editor is with us now. it looks like they have stolen tens of thousands of people's refunds. >>guest: potentially billions. part of the problem, is identifying that there is a problem. the i.r.s. says they do not know the extent of the problem and it is hard if them to track and identify that something like this is happening. >>shepard: explain wha
we have confirmed, now, that jovan belcher use the one gun to kill his girlfriend and another gun to kill himself. as you said earlier we have finally confirmed that he did, in fact, shoot kasandra perkins nine times before going to the stadium and shooting himself. >>shepard: thank yous -- thank you, trace. and agencies are reporting that the head coach of the badgers in wisconsin has been stolen away by the university of arkansas is going to arkansas to fill that series of weird...
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belcher and his girlfriend? i don't know.l i know is that it the statistics from single parenthood and children out of wedlock and what happens to kids in those circumstances, what happens to the fathers in those circumstances. it's not good. >> dana: an degreia, i'm a believer in the institution of marriage to solidify families and root you in a grounded, make it possibly tradition and hopefully be prosperous in the future. there is a lot, there are many babies born out of wedlock. all across america. and all races. in particular, in african-american families and growing in hispanic and white families as well. do you think it has anything do with how people end up committing crimes like this? and not able to deal with the success he earned? >> andrea: i think there is a family element to certain things. maybe the way he was raised or how he wasn't raised. maybe he wasn't taught right from wrong. i have a hard time buying this. this is a total argument. a but-for argument. but for the family he would haven't don
belcher and his girlfriend? i don't know.l i know is that it the statistics from single parenthood and children out of wedlock and what happens to kids in those circumstances, what happens to the fathers in those circumstances. it's not good. >> dana: an degreia, i'm a believer in the institution of marriage to solidify families and root you in a grounded, make it possibly tradition and hopefully be prosperous in the future. there is a lot, there are many babies born out of wedlock. all...
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we also confirm that belcher owned a number of give guns. he used one to kill his girlfriend and another one to kill himself. investigators say alcohol may have been a factor in this. but when police came in contact with javon belcher at 2:30 in the morning in his bentley they said at that time he was fine to drive. shep? >> shepard: trace gallagher live tonight, thanks. cops here in new york say they have caught a man who is accused of pushing somebody right in front of a subway train. they found him just a block away from where the attack happened. it all went down yesterday right in times square just around the corner from our building here. a bystander recorded a video of an argument between two men on that platform. >> leaf me [bleep] alone. take your [bleep], [bleep], stand in line wait for the train. >> the man on the right is the suspect. all sorts of different stories about why they were arguing. one witness said the suspect was deranged. the victim was trying to calm him down. according to the "new york post" which our parent compa
we also confirm that belcher owned a number of give guns. he used one to kill his girlfriend and another one to kill himself. investigators say alcohol may have been a factor in this. but when police came in contact with javon belcher at 2:30 in the morning in his bentley they said at that time he was fine to drive. shep? >> shepard: trace gallagher live tonight, thanks. cops here in new york say they have caught a man who is accused of pushing somebody right in front of a subway train....
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in the coming days jovan belcher's actions will be an lids. but i believe in jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> reporter: a lot of people criticizing costas for using a sporting event to is suppose a political view point. some people agree with costas, others asked what kel were weapon did ovmen -- did o.j. us. some saying onl only fools blame tools. ted nugent says you tune in for a football game and you get bob could toss spewing sanctimonious dreck. megyn: the statistics are stunning. 5 million women are abused by a domestic partner every year. 85% of them are women. the domestic violence hotline receives 22,000 calls every month. gun violence is not all that common. the debate over those costas remarks, whether he was out of line or he was on the mark in just a couple minutes right here. as lawmakers face off over the nation's fiscal crisis. to claim the president's insistence on raising taxes on the wealthy is not about money or tackling our debt or deif i side --our debt or deficit i
in the coming days jovan belcher's actions will be an lids. but i believe in jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> reporter: a lot of people criticizing costas for using a sporting event to is suppose a political view point. some people agree with costas, others asked what kel were weapon did ovmen -- did o.j. us. some saying onl only fools blame tools. ted nugent says you tune in for a football game and you get bob could toss spewing...
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belcher's agent says he like everyone else is stunned that belcher turned violent. >> the how and the why is the craziness of this. there's nothing in my relationship with him that would indicate any troubling past, anything that troubled him that would have caused him to commit such a heinous act as this and we just -- we'll never know, unfortunately. and i think that's the great debate of this. >> chiefs won the game against carolina and later in the locker room head coach spoke to the team. >> it's something really good today. really good. you overcame a lot. you stuck together as a team like we talked about. helped each other. all right? family and friends. you relied on those people. all right? you relied on your faith to help get you through this and we got through it. and in a grand way because everybody made a contribution. everybody helped. okay in that's what a team is about. that's what a team is about. >> police say belcher used a gun to kill his partner and himself and halftime segment on sunday night football bob costas made a case for gun control. sports reporter joe ca
belcher's agent says he like everyone else is stunned that belcher turned violent. >> the how and the why is the craziness of this. there's nothing in my relationship with him that would indicate any troubling past, anything that troubled him that would have caused him to commit such a heinous act as this and we just -- we'll never know, unfortunately. and i think that's the great debate of this. >> chiefs won the game against carolina and later in the locker room head coach spoke...
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they say belcher shot his girlfriend several times. after shooting her he drove to arrowhead stadium where he spoke briefly with the general manager and the head coach romeo krennel before turning the gun on himself. the chiefs decided play the game and won their first home game of the season. before the game players and fans observed a moment of silence for victims of domestic violence. both sides taking a phoept o moment together. the little girl will be taken to long island and raised by his girlfriend's mother. funeral arrangements have not been released for either one of them. jenna: brad underwood in kansas city. thank you very much for that. as many of you know and have heard in the news today, a well-known tv sports personality talked about this tragedy and how it relates to gun control. we are going to take a look at that with our news watch panel coming up in just a few minutes. jon: russia is now urging north korea to call off its plans to fire a long range missile. it's a move the u.s. state department calls a threat to pea
they say belcher shot his girlfriend several times. after shooting her he drove to arrowhead stadium where he spoke briefly with the general manager and the head coach romeo krennel before turning the gun on himself. the chiefs decided play the game and won their first home game of the season. before the game players and fans observed a moment of silence for victims of domestic violence. both sides taking a phoept o moment together. the little girl will be taken to long island and raised by his...
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belcher drove miss glass home, dropped her off and passed out in misbentley. 2:50 a.m., cops woke belcher up and told him not to drive. he called glass apt spent the next four hours in her apartment. at 6:45 a.m., he drove the bentley to his home where girlfriend perkins recently arrived with her own night out with friends. argument ensued and belcher shot perkins nine times. belcher's mother and baby were there for the shooting. after killing perkins, belcher kissed the lifeless body, walk toed his mother, kissed his baby girl and left. he drove five miles to the chiefs' practice field after several minutes of pleading with him, they couldn't talk belcher off the ledge. belcher thanked the coaches, knelt down beside a car, made a sign of a cross and put a shot to his fare hoed ending his life -- fairhead ending his life. serve trying to make this about their issue. nbc and bob costas used the tragedy to promote gun control. remember this? >> in the coming days, jovan belcher's actions and the possible connection to football will be analyzed. if belcher didn't possess a gun, he and perkin
belcher drove miss glass home, dropped her off and passed out in misbentley. 2:50 a.m., cops woke belcher up and told him not to drive. he called glass apt spent the next four hours in her apartment. at 6:45 a.m., he drove the bentley to his home where girlfriend perkins recently arrived with her own night out with friends. argument ensued and belcher shot perkins nine times. belcher's mother and baby were there for the shooting. after killing perkins, belcher kissed the lifeless body, walk...
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one of belcher's friends tells a sports blog called dead spin after game last month belcher was dazed and couldn't remember what had happened the day before or at least before the game. steve brown is on fox top story. is he live in our midwest bureau tonight. what sort of signs of trouble before this shooting? anything? >> about the allegations that belcher had had head trauma or concussions, both the team and the league said there is no concussion history that they have on this man. and that he was never held out of a game because of a concussion. about the relationship between belcher and perkins, fox 4 our affiliate in kansas city spoke with friends and said saturday morning there was an argument and over her late return from a concert. and then the shots were fired. it really didn't make any sense to belcher's family. his aunt lives in the kansas city area. she read this statement for cameras today: we will cherish the wonderful memories we of have of javon and pray that those memories bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable end of his life and the life of ca
one of belcher's friends tells a sports blog called dead spin after game last month belcher was dazed and couldn't remember what had happened the day before or at least before the game. steve brown is on fox top story. is he live in our midwest bureau tonight. what sort of signs of trouble before this shooting? anything? >> about the allegations that belcher had had head trauma or concussions, both the team and the league said there is no concussion history that they have on this man. and...
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jovan belcher killed her. >> bob: i see. right. >> kimberly: greg? >> greg: if it was a deadly flood it would be the same saying we need to been a water. he is a hypocritical buffoon. he spends his life wondering in and out of the new york buildings flanked by people who are armed. he doesn't have to have a gun because he is protected by people with guns. he is a sanctimonious ghoul. when something comes up, he has to come up. pay attention to me. this is about scoring points with other people in media. same with whitlock, who is a chucklehead. this guy in the knickss when he was talking about jeremy lin played off a stereotypical deficiency i'm not even going to get in to. who refers to the nra as kkk. he is a bigot. apologize for that. >> bob: what is a ghoul? >> greg: somebody uses tragedy to build himself up. he is a hypocrite. because he doesn't worry about being armed. people are armed for him. we live in a building right now, we work at a building right now, where everybody has a gun outside. we're lucky. the rest of the public doesn't. >> bob
jovan belcher killed her. >> bob: i see. right. >> kimberly: greg? >> greg: if it was a deadly flood it would be the same saying we need to been a water. he is a hypocritical buffoon. he spends his life wondering in and out of the new york buildings flanked by people who are armed. he doesn't have to have a gun because he is protected by people with guns. he is a sanctimonious ghoul. when something comes up, he has to come up. pay attention to me. this is about scoring points...
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belcher and his girlfriend had been arguing . the twov them leaving behind a three month old baby who can now with family. >> we could see huge tax increases and shrinking pay cuts. it is it a bad combination and triggering another recession. jan 1st is the deadline for lawmakers and the president to reach a deal on the budget. if they don't we'll go over the so-called fiscal cliff. mexico swearing in a new president and the reaction not good in the streets of mexico city. the inauguration is earlier today and marking the return of a party that was forced out a dozen years ago. after running the country 7 uninterrupted deck cades and playinged by crime. we are joined by lauren who is in mexico he promises that his party will be corruption-fro. that is important. you want stability south of our border considering they have a war going on. why should people believe it would be better. >> as you mentioned he has repeated again and again that his party is different than the one who left the presidency 12 years ago. he promised to cre
belcher and his girlfriend had been arguing . the twov them leaving behind a three month old baby who can now with family. >> we could see huge tax increases and shrinking pay cuts. it is it a bad combination and triggering another recession. jan 1st is the deadline for lawmakers and the president to reach a deal on the budget. if they don't we'll go over the so-called fiscal cliff. mexico swearing in a new president and the reaction not good in the streets of mexico city. the...
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the nfl steps in with a million dollars for jovan belcher's orphan daughter and high resolution images of your planet earth from space. the new technology uses filtering techniques that allows the images such as city lights, gas flares, auroras, wildfires and reflecting moonlight to be seen by the naked eye. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option: once-a-day xarelto®. xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, t
the nfl steps in with a million dollars for jovan belcher's orphan daughter and high resolution images of your planet earth from space. the new technology uses filtering techniques that allows the images such as city lights, gas flares, auroras, wildfires and reflecting moonlight to be seen by the naked eye. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who...
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in the coming days, belcher's action and the connection to football will be analyzed. who knows, but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe. if belcher didn't process a gun, he and perkins would be alive today. >> bret: news busters said costas entitled to his opinion but does he have to give it during halftime of a nationally televised game? critics who say political bias turns up in college classrooms have a big number to back up the case. the web site campus reform looked to federal election records from open secrets.org and found 96% of donations from ivy league faculty and staff went to president obama. congress approval rating has been dreadful but scores low marks on ethics and honesty also. new gallop poll finds members of congress come in second to last among professions beating only car salespeople. car salesman took to twitter today to express displeasure with the poll. 10% said they would give congress a high to very high rating. 34% said average. 54% said very low to low. finally when researching the internet be careful when citing wikipedia. judge in
in the coming days, belcher's action and the connection to football will be analyzed. who knows, but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe. if belcher didn't process a gun, he and perkins would be alive today. >> bret: news busters said costas entitled to his opinion but does he have to give it during halftime of a nationally televised game? critics who say political bias turns up in college classrooms have a big number to back up the case. the web site campus reform looked to...
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. >>> new this morning, was there another woman involved in the murder-suicide of the chief's jovan belcher? and the u.s. reacts to israel's plans to build and expand settlements. you're watching "first look" on msnbc. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. flavor, meet food. it's time for swanson flavor boost. concentrated broth in easy to use packets. mix it into skillet dishes, for an instant dose of... hell-o! [ female announcer ] get recipes at flavorboost.com. >>> the flu season has already kicked in with a vengeance for some. cases are arriving in five southern states and doctors are urging people to get flu shots. >>> the palestinian envoy to the united nations is condemning israel for plans for new settlements. and the united states says the construction would be damaging to prospect of renewed peace tal
. >>> new this morning, was there another woman involved in the murder-suicide of the chief's jovan belcher? and the u.s. reacts to israel's plans to build and expand settlements. you're watching "first look" on msnbc. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do...
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saturday was not the person who jovan belcher was. he was incredibly passionate, loving individual. he enjoyed everything he did. i'll always remember him with a smile on his face. he had a huge smile, great smile, infectious smile. excuse me. that's the picture that i have of him. he cared. he loved, had such a big heart. loved so many people. and the feeling was mutual. he was loved by so many. it's an incredible tragedy and very difficult to come to grips with. >> it's difficult for many people to come to grips with. because everybody says oh, there was no history of domestic violence in his past. but there are reports out there that he did have one experience while he was at maine. do you know about that? where he became so angry, he put his fist through a wall or glass window? >> he -- there was an incident with -- where he did put his fist through a window. to me it was our freshman year. he was 18 or 19 years old. i always credited that to an immature decision, a decision that i actually have another friend who has done the sam
saturday was not the person who jovan belcher was. he was incredibly passionate, loving individual. he enjoyed everything he did. i'll always remember him with a smile on his face. he had a huge smile, great smile, infectious smile. excuse me. that's the picture that i have of him. he cared. he loved, had such a big heart. loved so many people. and the feeling was mutual. he was loved by so many. it's an incredible tragedy and very difficult to come to grips with. >> it's difficult for...
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let me go back to javn belcher. >> police say belcher turned a gun on perkins in the home that they share with their 3-month-old daughter. the child was spared. the player then went to the stadium, thanked his coaches for believing in him and then shot himself as they watched in horror. >> cenk: were guns a factor in this shooting? of course, of course! of course they were. he shot her nine times. he shot himself as well. but not in the ultimate reality that the conservatives live in. they're reacting not at him but at bob costas. here is ted nugent. we thought bob costas was smarter than that. only fools blame tools instead of human failings. shame, bob. this guy talking about shame. remember ted nugent was the rocker who crapped in his pants to get out of vietnam. that embarrassment, that pitiful excuse and you talk about shame. you walked around in your own waste for a week, you coward. shame. then we weapon "g" to matt yoder whoyo--then we go to matt yoder so that's the place where people might pay attention to it. so don't ever talk about it, a when people are paying attention, and b
let me go back to javn belcher. >> police say belcher turned a gun on perkins in the home that they share with their 3-month-old daughter. the child was spared. the player then went to the stadium, thanked his coaches for believing in him and then shot himself as they watched in horror. >> cenk: were guns a factor in this shooting? of course, of course! of course they were. he shot her nine times. he shot himself as well. but not in the ultimate reality that the conservatives live...
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that's despite the shock and horror of yesterday's suicide of linebacker jevon belcher. stay right there with full details in a full report on cnn in just a minute. >>> high winds and heavy rain are pummeling the northwest. the rainfall will continue throughout the day. some places have already seen a foot of rain since yesterday. people living in northern california, oregon and washington state are bracing for rising rivers and possible mudslides. >>> supporters of mohammad morsi blocked the high court from indefinitely suspending all court sessions. that would suspend a ruling on the drawing up of egypt's new constitution. president morsi declared his decisions are now immune from judicial oversight. >>> it is a frightening and deadly scene in japan. just look at this. at least two cars are still trapped inside a highway tunnel after a massive section of the concrete structure collapsed. police say they have already found several burned bodies inside the rubble about 50 miles west of tokyo. it is not clear what caused the tunnel to cave in or how many cars were inside
that's despite the shock and horror of yesterday's suicide of linebacker jevon belcher. stay right there with full details in a full report on cnn in just a minute. >>> high winds and heavy rain are pummeling the northwest. the rainfall will continue throughout the day. some places have already seen a foot of rain since yesterday. people living in northern california, oregon and washington state are bracing for rising rivers and possible mudslides. >>> supporters of mohammad...
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our prayers and condolences go out to the family of jovan belcher. they are also grieving. >> reporter: earlier that morning belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins. the couple leaves behind a 3-month-old baby. >> i know that she really was excited and loved that baby. and she's just a beautiful person inside and out. >> reporter: fans tailgated, but the shootings hung heavily over the stadium. >> it's not the celebratory atmosphere that it usually is. >> first instincts i had was what are they going to do? are they going to play the game or postpone it? >> reporter: before kickoff, a moment of silence for victims of domestic violence and their families. belcher's name was not mentioned, but it didn't have to be. >> obviously, there was some deeper issues that none of us knew about, and it's just sad that it had to happen the way he did and he couldn't get help. >> reporter: in belcher's hometown of west babylon, new york, a vigil for the former high school star whose life and another were cut short by his own hands. >> our prayers a
our prayers and condolences go out to the family of jovan belcher. they are also grieving. >> reporter: earlier that morning belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins. the couple leaves behind a 3-month-old baby. >> i know that she really was excited and loved that baby. and she's just a beautiful person inside and out. >> reporter: fans tailgated, but the shootings hung heavily over the stadium. >> it's not the celebratory atmosphere that it usually is....
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first up tragedy in the nfl after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend before shooting and killing himself. as a result, the gun control debate back in the spotlight but with more gun regulation actually have made any difference at all? here now is deputy editor of think progress.org and nationally syndicated radio talk show host. lars i'm a second amendment guy. to me guns don't kill people crazy people shooting guns kill people. would a gun regulation have stopped this tragedy? >> only one kind of gun regulation would have stopped this and that would be to gut the second amendment and i don't think igor can reject that. 20,000 laws around the country regulate guns at the state, federal and local level. those laws sometimes are forced a and sometimes not. this young man there was no reason legally to deny him the ownership of a firearm. so the suggestion by bob costas who ought to be fired for the comments, his outrageous suggestion that the civil rights of americans all 300 million of us should be taken away and we should be denied the right to own a g
first up tragedy in the nfl after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend before shooting and killing himself. as a result, the gun control debate back in the spotlight but with more gun regulation actually have made any difference at all? here now is deputy editor of think progress.org and nationally syndicated radio talk show host. lars i'm a second amendment guy. to me guns don't kill people crazy people shooting guns kill people. would a gun regulation have...
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belcher's grieving teammates refuse to blame guns for tragic event. the new york daily news say a pair of players one schaefering thanksgiving dinner with belcher who insists the protection of guns is necessary and most people own them. they called it a mistake saying that my mistake is i left it for too much communication in the short segment. rather than properly discussing the football culture the gun culture and domestic violence. costas says he does not favor appeal of the second amendment. >> bret: it's been a month since the campaign ended but vice president asheel ghafoor js gaffes are continuing. he sent congratulatory letter to eric boudenweiser republican state senate candidate in delaware. but budenwebeiser withdrew after being charged with felony counts for raining a boy for a decade. the form letter began, "congratulations on your recent victory in our great state of delaware." in a local report that mentioned the story, the situation is described as somewhat embarrassing. the result of vice president not being awareed of the confusion,
belcher's grieving teammates refuse to blame guns for tragic event. the new york daily news say a pair of players one schaefering thanksgiving dinner with belcher who insists the protection of guns is necessary and most people own them. they called it a mistake saying that my mistake is i left it for too much communication in the short segment. rather than properly discussing the football culture the gun culture and domestic violence. costas says he does not favor appeal of the second...
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new details about the final hours of jovan belcher apartments life. he spent the night with another woman before going home in the morning fighting with his girlfriend, cassandra perkins and shooting her repeatedly. many people report he was drunk the night before and spent the night at the home of another woman. dr. keith ablow is here. take us through the details. he fell asleep in his car outside the home of another woman, woken by the police inside the car, went inside the building, spent the night there and then in the morning he went home. when he went home is when all this happened. put it together. >> there is a little girl with no parents, there has been a murder and suicide. now comes the task of trying to explain what might seem to be the inexplicable. what we do know seemingly is there a long tphaoeuft drink involved, perhaps there is another woman involved. what we do know is that this fellow has a history of violent altercations with women. back in 2006 and 2007 one involved breaking a window, nearly severing his thumb and cutting his wr
new details about the final hours of jovan belcher apartments life. he spent the night with another woman before going home in the morning fighting with his girlfriend, cassandra perkins and shooting her repeatedly. many people report he was drunk the night before and spent the night at the home of another woman. dr. keith ablow is here. take us through the details. he fell asleep in his car outside the home of another woman, woken by the police inside the car, went inside the building, spent...
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belcher is responsible but the pundit class. the pundit class, dr. archer started immediately to make excuses. it's the nfl, it was the guns, rather than saying this is an individual who was disturbed and, you know, that's what the crux of the matter is. >> the crux of the matter is that the number one predict everywhere of violence, the number one predictor of suicide is alcohol and drug abuse. if we want to get to a reason why this happened that has to be at the top of the list. clearly this is a guy who was taken painkillers. nfl players are four times more likely than the general population to take narcotic painkillers and he was drinking on those painkillers. if you want a reason that's your -- >> wait, doctor ablow, so you say that the analysis should have been he did it and he is responsible. you don't disagree with that? >> don't disagree at all. one of the drivers of his action was the drinking and the drug taking? >> correct. >> bill: all right. that seems to be logical dr. ablow to make that kind of analysis. always with the headline he di
belcher is responsible but the pundit class. the pundit class, dr. archer started immediately to make excuses. it's the nfl, it was the guns, rather than saying this is an individual who was disturbed and, you know, that's what the crux of the matter is. >> the crux of the matter is that the number one predict everywhere of violence, the number one predictor of suicide is alcohol and drug abuse. if we want to get to a reason why this happened that has to be at the top of the list. clearly...
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one day after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend then killed himself, his team was back on the field for a game. the chief beat the carolina panthers 27-2 -- but as manual bojorquez reports the team and fans are still struggling for answers. >> reporter: amid the typical game day festivities at arrowhead stadium, reminders of a team tragedy. the chiefs coach romeo crennel greeted fans just one day after watching linebacker jovan belcher take his life. >> it's tough when circumstance happen, you can't undo them. and so you have to rely on each other, rely on your family, your friends and rely on your faith. >> reporter: authorities say belcher shot and killed kasandra perkins his girlfriend and mother of his three month old daughter yesterday morning at home. he then drove to the team's practice facility where he shot himself in front of crennel and general manager scott pioli. >> after talking with the captains, they also felt like it was best that we play, if for no other reason it takes our mind off our missery for a few hours. >> reporter: there was
one day after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend then killed himself, his team was back on the field for a game. the chief beat the carolina panthers 27-2 -- but as manual bojorquez reports the team and fans are still struggling for answers. >> reporter: amid the typical game day festivities at arrowhead stadium, reminders of a team tragedy. the chiefs coach romeo crennel greeted fans just one day after watching linebacker jovan belcher take his life....
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and belcher's uniform hung untouched in his locker. members of the chiefs organization struggled for answers. >> it's tough. i miss him, you know. he's a great guy. a great teammate. >> he was an individual that did something that he snapped, and that, i don't understand. i probably never will. >> no history of concussions from belcher either. his teammates and 62,000 fans observed a moment of silence for victims of domestic violence. we're going to have highlights from the game in just a moment. >>> and new research is coming to light strengthening the link between long-term brain damage and playing football. espn and pbs' front line are working on a documentary. and they report that scientists have discovered 28 new cases of chronic brain disease in football players who have died, 15 of them former nfl players. one researcher says the sheer volume of cases will overwhelm anybody who wants to deny there's a problem. >>> a family is accusing sea world of shrugging off a dolphin attack on their 8-year-old daughter. jillian thomas was fe
and belcher's uniform hung untouched in his locker. members of the chiefs organization struggled for answers. >> it's tough. i miss him, you know. he's a great guy. a great teammate. >> he was an individual that did something that he snapped, and that, i don't understand. i probably never will. >> no history of concussions from belcher either. his teammates and 62,000 fans observed a moment of silence for victims of domestic violence. we're going to have highlights from the...
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. >> reporter: relatives of kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher speaking out today trying to make sense of this tragedy. >> we are overwhelmed with both sadness and confusion. >> reporter: belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, saturday. tonight her family releasing this statement saying "please keep us in your hearts and prayers, as well as the belcher family, for two lives were lost." and here inside the chiefs' practice facility, you can see his locker is still filled with all of his gear. the team says they don't know when or if his locker will be cleared out this season. the incident reignited the gun control debate. sportscaster bob costas taking a stand on sunday night football. >> if jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> reporter: today chiefs head coach, romeo crennel, who witnessed belcher's suicide, added his voice. >> all i know is a player with a gun and i know it's not a good thing. >> reporter: but what drove belcher to kill? was it a head injury, so common in football, or was this another t
. >> reporter: relatives of kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher speaking out today trying to make sense of this tragedy. >> we are overwhelmed with both sadness and confusion. >> reporter: belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, saturday. tonight her family releasing this statement saying "please keep us in your hearts and prayers, as well as the belcher family, for two lives were lost." and here inside the chiefs' practice facility, you can...
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it is the desperate 911 call from javon belcher's own mother. the kansas city chief's nfl player who shot his girlfriend. surveillance video showed a mother allegedly sneaking her little daughter out of the hospital. doctors had warned the young leukemia patient had something in her heart that would kill her within days if they didn't deal with it. now word of a major development. what her father reportedly says about where that child is right now. stay close. same item at walmart f less? gee okay. fijit friends. fifteen bucks on rollback. wow! that's a savings of over 29 bucks! twenty-nine bucks!!?? and they're powered by friendship. see for yourself if you could save on brands you want. walmart. can i still ship a gift in time r christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. ♪ [ male announcer ] they are a glowing example of what it means to be the best. and at this special time of year, they shine even brighter
it is the desperate 911 call from javon belcher's own mother. the kansas city chief's nfl player who shot his girlfriend. surveillance video showed a mother allegedly sneaking her little daughter out of the hospital. doctors had warned the young leukemia patient had something in her heart that would kill her within days if they didn't deal with it. now word of a major development. what her father reportedly says about where that child is right now. stay close. same item at walmart f less? gee...
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cbs news spoke with belcher's mother. she had no comment but said quote i have grieving to do. manuel bojorquez cbs news, kansas city, missouri. >> this morning the weather is clearing in the pacific northwest. that's good news after three successive storms drenched the region. the third hit yesterday knocking out power to tens of thousands in northern california but the weather system was fast-moving. and the damage less than expected. >> reporter: high winds uprooted trees in citrus heights, california. and blew over a truck in san francisco. wind and rain pound the northern part of the state for the third time in less than a week. across the region some streets looked more like rivers. and thousands woke up without electricity after power lines snapped. in tahoe the rain turned to snow sunday morning. the national weather service said that kept the truckee river from flooding into homes. >> you live on a river, bad things can happen. i was being alert. >> reporter: but 2 1/2 hours south along the napa river people are still keeping a close eye on water levels. >> you never k
cbs news spoke with belcher's mother. she had no comment but said quote i have grieving to do. manuel bojorquez cbs news, kansas city, missouri. >> this morning the weather is clearing in the pacific northwest. that's good news after three successive storms drenched the region. the third hit yesterday knocking out power to tens of thousands in northern california but the weather system was fast-moving. and the damage less than expected. >> reporter: high winds uprooted trees in...
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javon belcher kills kasandra perkins. by 8:10 he has a gun to his head in front of his head coach and time president. by 10:00 a.m. the nfl has already informed the carolina panthers that they need to be in kansas city the next day to play a game, and by 3:00 p.m. the nfl is putting out press releases saying, wait a minute the game is going o-but the it's the decision of the chiefs' captain and coach who just saw a player blow his brains out in front of him. maybe the captains voted to do it. i don't know for sure if that is, in fact, true. why should that be the decision of the chiefs players? imagine a similar circumstance if a pilot saw something similar with their spouse and then said, well, i'm ready to fly a plane a few hours later? no, someone would step in and say you need a time-out. i'm interviewed a lot of nfl players, and what they say is that the playing field is the most dangerous bh you're distracted. the idea the game went on when players wrestle with the fact a teammate say murderer and also a suicide sta
javon belcher kills kasandra perkins. by 8:10 he has a gun to his head in front of his head coach and time president. by 10:00 a.m. the nfl has already informed the carolina panthers that they need to be in kansas city the next day to play a game, and by 3:00 p.m. the nfl is putting out press releases saying, wait a minute the game is going o-but the it's the decision of the chiefs' captain and coach who just saw a player blow his brains out in front of him. maybe the captains voted to do it. i...
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jovan belcher shot his girlfriend multiple times at the home they shared. then he drove to the training complex behind me and killed himself in front of several coaches who were trying to talk him out of it. police know what happened, now they're trying to figure out and investigate why it happened. that investigation is ongoing. police are not saying much else about a potential motive. >> i think everyone who has spoken out from family members to friends have all said that they were completely shocked by this. it seems so out of character. having said that, as you know, there's been at least six current or former nfl players that have committed suicide in just the past two years. murder-suicide unprecedented. however there are some people this morning who are speculating these tragedies could have been linked to undiagnosed concussion injuries. any truth to that? >> well, we don't know if there's truth to it, but it's certainly a natural area of inquiry. the nfl has been trying in the last couple of years to deal with the issue of concussions. as you menti
jovan belcher shot his girlfriend multiple times at the home they shared. then he drove to the training complex behind me and killed himself in front of several coaches who were trying to talk him out of it. police know what happened, now they're trying to figure out and investigate why it happened. that investigation is ongoing. police are not saying much else about a potential motive. >> i think everyone who has spoken out from family members to friends have all said that they were...
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martha: belcher is not the first nfl player to recently take his life. junior say oh and dave diewr on both died of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. we'll talk to jim coming up in the next hour. >> 6 minutes past the hour. former president george herbert walker bush waking up in a houston hospital. said to be in stable condition being treated for a bronchitis-related cough. he's 91 years old. he has been visited by several of his children including former president george w. bush. hopefully he will be going home very soon. martha: there are around the clock demonstrations in egypt as president morsi and the muslim brotherhood push through a hard-line islamist constitution. morsi supporters blocked them from entering the courthouse in order to give a ruling on this constitution. steve harrigan joins us from there. where do we stand now with this constitutional court having no ability to rule at this point? >> reporter: the most unusual situation in cairo where you have egypt's top court whose judges now say basically they are afraid to do their job. they we
martha: belcher is not the first nfl player to recently take his life. junior say oh and dave diewr on both died of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. we'll talk to jim coming up in the next hour. >> 6 minutes past the hour. former president george herbert walker bush waking up in a houston hospital. said to be in stable condition being treated for a bronchitis-related cough. he's 91 years old. he has been visited by several of his children including former president george w. bush. hopefully...
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. >>> and a memorial service in kansas city for javon belcher, the football player who committed suicide on saturday after killing his girlfriend. the chiefs were there early wednesday to pay their last respects. they said they wanted to remember him as a man, north a killer. >> you've got to try to deal with it however you deal with it and grieve, you know, the best way for the individual. i think the best way for us is to get closure and move on and find some way to focus on football. >> belcher shot 22-year-old kasandra perkins. her funeral will be tomorrow in texas. their daughter will get $1 million from the nfl collective bargaining committee. >>> how a drug can have big benefits for patients. this is the "cbs morning news." [ male announcer ] sponges take your mark. [ female announcer ] one drop of ultra dawn has twice the everyday grease cleaning ingredients of one drop of the leading non-concentrated brand... to clean 2x more greasy dishes. dawn does more. so it's not a chore. without freshly-made pasta. you could also cut corners by making it without 100% real cheddar cheese. b
. >>> and a memorial service in kansas city for javon belcher, the football player who committed suicide on saturday after killing his girlfriend. the chiefs were there early wednesday to pay their last respects. they said they wanted to remember him as a man, north a killer. >> you've got to try to deal with it however you deal with it and grieve, you know, the best way for the individual. i think the best way for us is to get closure and move on and find some way to focus on...
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that belcher said to him? >> well he hasn't said what belcher said to him specifically but what police have said is that belcher expressed this thankfulness to coach crennel and chiefs organization from giving him a chance to play in the nfl. he was from a small university and he worked really hard to get where he was. there was another member of chiefs staff who saw that he had a gun and called 911. the chiefs staff members who confronted belcher in the parking lot said they never felt like they were in any danger. at least that's according to police. but then he shot himself right in front of them. the police now know exactly what happened. what they're trying to figure out in this investigation is obviously why it happened. >> yeah, i mean 25 years old. he'd been really just sort of a, an underdog in a lot of ways and he'd been so successful in that. there have been six current or former nfl players that have committed suicide in the past two years. which is an unprecedented number. what are they looking in
that belcher said to him? >> well he hasn't said what belcher said to him specifically but what police have said is that belcher expressed this thankfulness to coach crennel and chiefs organization from giving him a chance to play in the nfl. he was from a small university and he worked really hard to get where he was. there was another member of chiefs staff who saw that he had a gun and called 911. the chiefs staff members who confronted belcher in the parking lot said they never felt...
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belcher's coaches say fierce determination made him a starter. kansas city chiefs players say they never saw warning signs in the recent behavior. the teammate called on to replace belcher in the line-up. young age. high profile jobs. he's a young father. did you ever get the sense that he was struggling to deal with pressures? >> we never seen anything. he never gave up a sign. or pressure was too much. he was always happy. >> reporter: did he ever experience troubles of his personal life? >> no major troubles in his life. everybody has some issues in their personal life. i mean, all of us here have issues in our personal life. and everybody handles issues differently. he seemed like a strong-willed individual to me. he's a leader. he was sitting in the front of the classroom. he's a first to the drills. i'm not a psychologist. i don't know what made him snap. >> reporter: perkins' family spokesperson said there were never any signs of trouble in the relationship, described them as loving couple and belcher never abused her the family says and t
belcher's coaches say fierce determination made him a starter. kansas city chiefs players say they never saw warning signs in the recent behavior. the teammate called on to replace belcher in the line-up. young age. high profile jobs. he's a young father. did you ever get the sense that he was struggling to deal with pressures? >> we never seen anything. he never gave up a sign. or pressure was too much. he was always happy. >> reporter: did he ever experience troubles of his...
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belcher murder suicide tragedy back bar to start with liberal broaden the discussion to gun violence in america as a whole. didn't like it especially didn't like it when back and suggested that thousands of kids are killed every year by gun violence and to work. there were more kids killed and i don't treat that how i thought why would i buy clothes by the way but you sure give me a g.a.o. to define the eighty five or seventy what do you think that's from what did you just say what it is what it was what the seventeen year old was killed by a gun would you call that bob that's called gang violence what is that a crime that you are using out your so you can as you progress ridiculous as right in the back of a liberal a lecture about guns or not or all the talk about all or don't murder mysteries i combined have less desk going i don't know i think it's seventeen year olds in gangs just beyond why she ever said a gang member they know gets killed right. by my gang but where does most of the gang violence occur i did say gang violence look i'm right on this. the incredibly misleading bl
belcher murder suicide tragedy back bar to start with liberal broaden the discussion to gun violence in america as a whole. didn't like it especially didn't like it when back and suggested that thousands of kids are killed every year by gun violence and to work. there were more kids killed and i don't treat that how i thought why would i buy clothes by the way but you sure give me a g.a.o. to define the eighty five or seventy what do you think that's from what did you just say what it is what...
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belcher's team the kansas city chiefs held a moment of silence at yesterday's game. the head coach says the game was an escape from the pain. >> after talking with the captains they also felt like it was best that we play if for no other reason it takes your mind off our misery for a few hours, and so that's what it did. ♪ so will bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet. the only one with trap + lock technology. look! one select-a-size sheet of bounty is 50% more absorbent than a full size sheet of the leading ordinary brand. use less. with the small but powerful picker upper, bounty select-a-size. you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. it's no wonder so many investors are say
belcher's team the kansas city chiefs held a moment of silence at yesterday's game. the head coach says the game was an escape from the pain. >> after talking with the captains they also felt like it was best that we play if for no other reason it takes your mind off our misery for a few hours, and so that's what it did. ♪ so will bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet. the only one with trap + lock technology. look! one select-a-size sheet of bounty is 50% more absorbent...
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meanwhile, several chiefs players attended a memorial service for belcher yesterday. he of course, killed his girlfriend, the child's mother, on saturday, before then taking his own life. >>> and a warning, now, for parents of small children. the government says five deaths are linked to portable baby recliners sold as the nap nanny or the chill. babies have fallen out or got caught in the safety harness. the makers of nap nanny have refused to pull the products. so, the government is taking the rare step of asking a judge to force it off the shelves. >>> also, there's a possible breakthrough in the treatment for alzheimer's disease. john's happen kin researchers call it a pacemaker for the brain. it's being tested on people with early-stage alzheimer's to see if low volt electricity can boost memory. surgeons implanted the first device into an alzheimer patient last month. >>> the grammy nominations were annoyanced overnight before the big show in february. and six artists are tied for the most nominations. kanye west, jay-z, frank ocean, dan auerbach, mumford & sons
meanwhile, several chiefs players attended a memorial service for belcher yesterday. he of course, killed his girlfriend, the child's mother, on saturday, before then taking his own life. >>> and a warning, now, for parents of small children. the government says five deaths are linked to portable baby recliners sold as the nap nanny or the chill. babies have fallen out or got caught in the safety harness. the makers of nap nanny have refused to pull the products. so, the government is...
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. >>> the family of jovan belcher is speaking publically for the first time since he fatally shot his girl friend and killed himself. belcher's sister and uncle stood by his aunt as she spoke outside the home where the football star lived with 22-year-old kasandra perkins and their 3-month-old daughter. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of javon and pray those memory also bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life and the life of kasandra perkins. >> kansas city police confirm that the gun used by belcher was purchased legally. belcher's mother has been given temporary custody of the couple's daughter, zoe. >> a picture of suspect george zimmerman released by his attorney reportedly taken by a police officer the night zimmerman shot and killed martin. the bloody picture itself is not new, but the fact it's a high resolution color photo is. zimmerman's attorney says it gives the case more context. >> is it devastating? no. but it's just one piece of evidence that shows what george was going through that night and why he re
. >>> the family of jovan belcher is speaking publically for the first time since he fatally shot his girl friend and killed himself. belcher's sister and uncle stood by his aunt as she spoke outside the home where the football star lived with 22-year-old kasandra perkins and their 3-month-old daughter. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of javon and pray those memory also bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life...
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vaughn belcher here's what to say. our current done culture with lock wrote ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenient store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead handguns do not enhance our safety they exacerbate our flaws attempt to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it in the coming days javan belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed who knows but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe if javan belcher didn't possess a gun he and cassandra perkins would both be alive today. and here's what caused this didn't say he didn't say the government should take away people's guns he didn't say we should repeal the second amendment and he didn't call for limits on gun ownership still the conservative media and the blogosphere load up with fiery outrage towards cost to us and fox news is still talking about it today so if we
vaughn belcher here's what to say. our current done culture with lock wrote ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenient store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead handguns do not enhance our safety they exacerbate our flaws attempt to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it in the coming days javan belcher's actions and their possible...
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the head coach who watched aso van belcher took his life on saturday spoke about the tragedy after the game. >> it's tough when circumstance happen you can't undo them. so you have to rely on each other, rely on your family, friend and rely on your faith and that's what the team tried to do. we were able to do that. >> joining me is rob from nbc sports. as we hear more about this story. so tragic. 25 years old. this young man. his girlfriend 22 years old. the parents watch new 3-month-old. do we know any more about why, what was going on behind the scene? >> there's been some talk about some troubles in the relationship between jovan belcher and his girlfriend okay sandra p -- okcassandra perkins. >> there were talks about whether the chiefs would go ahead with the game. for the coach and for the team, everybody is still scratching their heads because the coach witnessing jovan belcher taking his own life. >> imagine the situation. a day before a game, general manager of the team, coach and assistant coach were trying to talk to belcher, trying to talk him out of what he was about to d
the head coach who watched aso van belcher took his life on saturday spoke about the tragedy after the game. >> it's tough when circumstance happen you can't undo them. so you have to rely on each other, rely on your family, friend and rely on your faith and that's what the team tried to do. we were able to do that. >> joining me is rob from nbc sports. as we hear more about this story. so tragic. 25 years old. this young man. his girlfriend 22 years old. the parents watch new...
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. >> the kansas city chiefs released a statement following belcher's death. it reads in part, the entire chiefs family is deeply saddened by today's events and our collective hearts are heavy with sympathy. thoughts and prayers for the family and friends affected by this unthinkable tragedy. we'll continue to fully cooperate with with the authorities and work to ensure that the appropriate counseling resources are available. >>> the supreme court could decide this week whether to take up the controversial issue of same-sex marriage. the nine justices met behind closed doors on friday but took no action. the high court could act tomorrow when it's scheduled to release orders or the justices may choose to discuss the divisive issue when they meet for another scheduled conference on friday. >>> and then there were two. this weekend alabama rolled over the georgia bulldogs 32-28 to earn a spot against undefeated notre dame for the coveted bcs title. the crimson tide are looking to win back-to-back titles and their third title in four years, which would be an unpr
. >> the kansas city chiefs released a statement following belcher's death. it reads in part, the entire chiefs family is deeply saddened by today's events and our collective hearts are heavy with sympathy. thoughts and prayers for the family and friends affected by this unthinkable tragedy. we'll continue to fully cooperate with with the authorities and work to ensure that the appropriate counseling resources are available. >>> the supreme court could decide this week whether to...
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belcher went to into a rage because she went to oo concert and left his baby at home. romeo personnel said he was shocked and showed no major issues. a campus police report shows belcher had a history of vief lens and once punched out a window about a girl. >> syria started to move it's xh chemical weapons. >> world is watching. the use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable. if you make the tragic mistake of using twheepz upons there will be consequences and you will be held accountable. >> the warning hours after secretary of state hillary clinton said using the weapons would cross a red line and the u.s. would take action. syrian jets continue to pound opposition fighters. assad said he would never use chemical weapons on his own people. >> the shooter can keep his beard for now. the appeals court through out an order that hassan be shaved and they kicked him off the case. they said the judge was biassed. he was accused of killing 13 people in a 2009 rampage including a pregnant woman. >> captain of the hms bounty care more about saving the ship th
belcher went to into a rage because she went to oo concert and left his baby at home. romeo personnel said he was shocked and showed no major issues. a campus police report shows belcher had a history of vief lens and once punched out a window about a girl. >> syria started to move it's xh chemical weapons. >> world is watching. the use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable. if you make the tragic mistake of using twheepz upons there will be consequences and you...
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there were knives and he got away with it. >> belcher was a rich football player. if you ban handguns with anybody, if he wants to kill somebody with a gun he will get one. >> that's a good point. bill, what is costas' solution for this? if this football player didn't have a gun they would be alive. what is he suggesting? what kind of ban would you do to prevent -- is it no wealthy aggressive football players can have guns? he is calling for a total gun ban. >> no aggressive football players. only the kickers. those are the only ones allowed to have them. >> that's true. they drink a lot i think. >> i like costas, but this was neither the time nor the place. they have to understand something, political statements are not for them. they are for the fans. the fans are the only ones eloquent enough to say stuff. the fan with the sign that says "kill all refs" and the fan with the cape and nothing but a cape holding up the" january 3:-- "john 3:16" and they can make comments because they paid a lot of money to be there. >> someone compared the nra to the kkk. >> come o
there were knives and he got away with it. >> belcher was a rich football player. if you ban handguns with anybody, if he wants to kill somebody with a gun he will get one. >> that's a good point. bill, what is costas' solution for this? if this football player didn't have a gun they would be alive. what is he suggesting? what kind of ban would you do to prevent -- is it no wealthy aggressive football players can have guns? he is calling for a total gun ban. >> no aggressive...
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we don't know much about belcher's mental statement or if there was brain injury involved. should the nfl discourage players from owning firearms? >> this is such a sad day and sad story. and i applaud costas. i don't think enough voices can be raised against this gun ownership. but the problem you have is number one, they shouldn't have played the game. that shows you that the priorities are off from day one. they should not have played that game. once again, the money wins out. obviously, i think you have to discourage people from carrying guns. and particularly in the national football league, with everything that's going on about the clear connection now between mental health and brain damage and erratic behavior exacerbated and probably one of the most violent games on earth, romeo crennel that belcher was a leader and one of the first guys in drills. we didn't see this coming. and that's the problem. number one, they are not trained to see it coming. the gun lobby is just so overwhelming. i think that if athletes, for example, who if they are looking for a civil right
we don't know much about belcher's mental statement or if there was brain injury involved. should the nfl discourage players from owning firearms? >> this is such a sad day and sad story. and i applaud costas. i don't think enough voices can be raised against this gun ownership. but the problem you have is number one, they shouldn't have played the game. that shows you that the priorities are off from day one. they should not have played that game. once again, the money wins out....